Here are a bunch of thoughts I've had swimming around my head. They are not neccessarily coherent. Feel free to comment, but do keep this in mind.

It's not easy to get a single straight answer. Perhaps that's because there isn't one. Maybe the "doesn't count" answer is easy to be skeptical of because there are such obvious interests in giving such an answer falsely, the "good girl" image, sensitivity for the male's feelings. But should there be similar scrutiny of "counts" answers? Particularly answers of the "Oh, you KNOW it counts, girlfriend! WOO!" type. If size has macho connotations for the male, does it have similar connotations for the female accepting it? A bragging right like that afforded to the female dating the 6-pack or 45cm biceps?

It's not like breast size. Breast size is obvious, within slight margins of error, from first front or side glance. A man finding a breast size range unappealing will quite possibly never give a woman any sign at all that he finds her unappealing for this reason because if it means so much to him he might never approach. A woman usually must deem a man to be suitable for sex at least once before having an opportunity to judge his penis and rejection at this point, or after sex, with penis size one of few possible factors, relative to the number of factors for rejection at first glance.

Breast size, too, has fair representation accross a large size spectrum in erotic fantasy. Penis size, where mentioned, and it usually is when any vivid description of it is given, is overwhelmingly (in terms of frequency) large. "She gave a great gasp upon seeing his mediocre member" just doesn't work. Yet, small breasts are routinely given their due as sexually appealing, albeit this is generally confined to perky ones, though smaller ones tend to fit this bill. Perhaps breasts are praised on account of shape rather than size with standards remaining difficult to attain....in any case, they are different.

Vaginal size though does rate a mention in this context. We frequently hear of tight pussies, never of loose, stretched and worn-out ones. But then, tightness refers to fit rather than size. A large woman taking a very large man is still "tight". On the subject, women who claim to require a large penis rarely seem to publicly ponder their size. Perhaps they would be more satisfied after a regime of Kegels than trying to find Mother Nature's most gifted? You know who's hung like a horse? My cousin's horse. You'd think that maybe judging 95% of men inadequate (I don't remember much from first-year stats nor much in detail from size surveys but I seem to remember men between about 4.5" and 7" falling within two standard deviations of the mean) would prompt some introspection about one's own size....I personally won't hold my breath waiting for the TV drama featuring men sharing disappointment at finding women with wonderful personalities but sporting pussies like clowns' pockets.

Would there be downsides to being large? I personally would hate to think that I could not penetrate a woman I loved because I was too large, or that I would be inclined to stay with a woman whose company I did not enjoy because she was capable of taking my enormity.

Perhaps it is unfortunate in some ways that a man's ego is wrapped up so tightly in pleasing women sexually. Perhaps the same impulses that drive a man to be an eager student of cunnilingus also drive him to existential angst when contemplating his non-huge member. Men with small penes have spoken of letting go of the desire to please women with penetration, for why should they care about the woman's orgasm? I for one do not care if a man should see my package, I do care if a woman does and explodes into fits of laughter, or asks me have I entered her yet, or claims she felt nothing, or gossips as much to her girlfriends.

More to come if I think of any.

__________________
I want to know everything
I want to be everywhere
I want to fuck everyone in the world
I want to do something that matters

Are you prepping for a dissertation? If yes, I recommend much experimental research with Pixie ladies. I would be willing to contribute some time to the cause.

__________________
Life is too short not to love and be loved....preferably multiple times in one night.

I think men talk to women so they can sleep with them and women sleep with men so they can talk to them. ~ Jay McInerney

Belial...

Very well written I will be waiting to read more... very thought provoking....

Belial,

I owe you a reply to this question, since you raised the point with me in PM and I've been rude in not replying to it sooner (though I have been formulating a few responses in my mind for some time now).

In response to your first paragraph: I imagine that the 'size counts' question is like may others in life. It varies from person to person. A lot of it depends on what a lady finds stimulating. Some women's pleasure is more clitoral and others more vaginal (personally I'm a clit girl, myself) but even with vaginal pleasure, I'd argue that one of the most sensitive spots in the vagina (the so called G-spot) is within easy reach of any penis, and it's the angle the penis is stimulating that's important in giving g-spot pleasure......it also has to do with staying power, and that of course is something that can be worked on over time. I'm not saying that there are no women out their who prefer larger dicks, I'm saying that for every woman who wants a 'monster' there are probably two women, who want a 'normal bloke'.

A good friend of mine who's had far more men than me (we're talking multiples of tens more than me, not 'a few' more) once said to me that men's members are like eggs - they all come in different sizes but unless you line one up next to the other, you really can't tell the difference. From a personal, point of view, I couldn't agree more, but then I've never been interested in size. Being a woman with hideously large breasts, I know all too well that big doesn't often equal beautiful, and from my experience, I'd say that large dicks don't equal great shags.

I'll admit that you've scared me a little bit with your second paragraph. I really don't like the idea that guys would rule me out before getting to know me because I happen to have breasts a certain size. I'd like to think that on the physical level, if I may not have breasts that are the size they like, then perhaps I have great legs, a delicious arse, a sexy smile or beautiful eyes, and that one of those things might be enough to warrant a guy's attention, rather than me being rejected instantly because I'm 'ample' not 'perky' in the breast department. I imagine, you're now thinking to yourself 'well I wouldn't rule you out just because you have one physical feature that isn't my ideal' and that would be true for you, I'm sure. The reason? Because you are a nice, non-shallow, respectful, kind hearted human being. You wouldn't decide whether to accept or reject me based on how much breast tissue I happen to have. So my question is this: don't you think that there are women out there like you - who don't judge and wouldn't reject you on the basis of just one of your physical features? And if so, why care about the opinions of other women, who are shallow, I doubt you'd even be interested in that type of woman to begin with, so the chances of you finding yourself in bed with one of these women is highly unlikely. My point is that by the time a woman has committed to sleeping with you, it's because they're attracted to you, it's because they care about you, it's because they want to progress the relationship, it sure as fuck isn't because they want to laugh at you. To be honest, your average woman is probably not selfless enough to be entirely concerned with how big your dick is on the first night together....she's busy worrying about her cellulite (like you give a shit about that - hell, you prolly don't even quite understand what it is!) the size of her boobs (but hell you're just pleased she's letting you see them!) whether you're going to think she's a slut if she's too forward or frigid if she's not forward enough, whether her blow job technique is good enough etc etc etc......at the end of the day, she's not going to laugh at you, and she's not going to reject you and she's not going to gossip about you to her friends if she's a decent human being and you're treating her properly. The only guy I've ever bitched about size wise is a guy who was a toad to me (and his girlfriend at the time) and who had such an arrogant attitude that it was a shock to find him a little bit smaller than I expected. He wasn't even the smallest guy I'd been with, but the smallest guy I've ever had, was also some of the best sex of my life (the man had a filthy mouth and wasn't afraid to use it!)

OK - erotic fiction: when you read stories on Pixies do you pay attention to the gender of the writer? I always do. I've noticed that men describe thigns in numbers much more than women do. Men write about how many inches the hero of the tale has, even the women's cup sizes (I'm hurt to find that 'perfect sized breasts' are often 36DD and that beautiful women weigh.....well.....a fuck of a lot less than I do!) whereas women will just say 'large' or 'perfect' or 'beautiful' or 'generous' without specifying. And no, women don't 'gasp at his mediocre sized manhood' because why on earth would they? Seeing an average size penis is what we're expecting, we'd only maybe gasp at a larger one, because it would be a shock (and even possibly a bit scary). But what you've got to remember that this is fiction.....just like porn is....well it's porn.....and real sex isn't like that. Real sex has bathroom breaks, contraception, tissues to wipe up, telephone calls interrupting you, fanny farts (sometimes!) creaking limbs, awkward positions that seem like a good idea at the time, and then prove impossible, laughter (in a good way!) and it also has some other stuff: love, trust, friendship and lust. I know it's possible to have sex without these things, but for a first timer, I'd highly recommend that all these ingredients are there (or at least, say 3 of them!)

As far as vaginal size goes, I'm sure there are differences, and I'm sure it matters to some guys, and I agree that there's not much said about it, but that's because in general, even the most 'worn-out' pussy is gong to feel something entering it (I think most women can feel a tampon going in and even the smallest men are bigger than a tampon!) As for TV dramas........the double standards continue in the media despite our best efforts to strive for equality.......I wonder if you're referring to a particular show, and in that case whether it was written by a man or a woman, or whether, if written by a woman, she herself has ever been disappointed with a guy's size, or whether she was writing something she thought people would be amused to see.

Your last paragraph worries me the most.....YOU have the ability to give a woman an orgasm, whether you have a penis a foot long, or no penis at all. In casual sex you may have no interest in your partner's pleasure, but then again, that's often the case in that situation, regardless of the guy's penis size. To re-iterate, no woman is going to be bitchy to you about your size when you're in bed with her, or afterwards for that matter.....by having sex with you, she's making herself vulnerable too. Women are highly sexual creatures, and we can be sexually aggressive, but that doesn't mean we're heartless self centred sex addicts who only value men for how 'useful' they are to us sexually, no more than men are.

Trust me, if sex were as emotionally complicated as all of this, no bugger would ever risk it! The reality is, it's an enjoyable contact between two people, not a war or a competition, and while I can really sympathise with you for being worried, there really is no need to.....unfortunately this is only something you'll discover once you've experienced it, and that is something that will happen in its own time, when you're with the right person, at the right time and in the right situation.

:hug:

Still think I really should just come over there and prove it to you, but Fussy doesn't seem keen on the idea! LOL

__________________
"Time flies like an arrow -
Fruit flies like a banana"

M Y - N A U G H T Y - P I C T U R E S ! !

For myself it has never been the package but more whats with in the person themselves. Looks are great but who wants a beautiful package if the contents are sour as hell.

Am I the biggest, hell no I am not. I know a couple of guys that have a terrible time just having normal intercourse because they are what they consider a bit large. One admited that he at times had wrapped a towel around the base of it so he wouldn't penetrate his partner so deeply as to injure her.

Personally for me I really do not care whether a Lady has large Breasts or small ones. I don't care if she has the perfect hourglass figure or not. If a relationship was strictly about looks what a crass bunch of buttholes we would be.

What is she really like? Does she care about herself and those around her? Beauty can be measured in many ways besides just looks or physical attributes.

As oversexed as I think I am at times I don't just want someone to Fuck, I want someone that I can be intimate with and be able to look myself in the eye later. I want her to find it as pleasurable as I did and at the same time be able to look her in the eye and tell how much I respect her. I always try to express how greatful I am for the pleasure she has given me and hope to hell I have given her the same in return.

That is what I have always likes about the Ladies here at Pixies. Under all the bravado They are all a wonderful and caring group. I could list them all here but it would take so much space that that I probably couldn't do it in a month of sundays. They same goes for the Men here.

As for me I have quit trying to fathom the things that I have know I have no control over. Instead I just try and enjoy the beauty contained in each and every one who cross my path either here or in life in general. Lou I love and enjoy you. Whats more I respect the hell out of you

Sam

PS I thought the orginal post was by Loulabell but what I wrote applies to bedail and everyone else as well

__________________
The Mind Is Your Limit. As Long As Your Mind Can
Envision It, You Can Do It!

Lou,

The point I was trying to make with the second paragraph was not that I would, or even that a significant number of men would judge a woman based on her breast size. The point I was trying to make was that breast size and penis size are different issues for a number of reasons. A man approaching a woman almost certainly already knows and approves of or at the very least accepts her breast size before she has invested emotionally in him. The same is not true of penis size, unless men were to walk around in Speedos with erections in public (I'm sure you'd hate that ). I can understand that you would be scared at what I wrote but it is my thought that if a man was hung-up on breast size (not that I am suggesting that many are) and found yours undesirable you would probably never know, because he can discern this, with an acceptable margin of error, without ever saying a word to you. I am certainly not suggesting women in general to be shallow, either; hell, there are so many wonderful women here that I'd have to be going around with my eyes closed to believe that. I just think that some peoples' equation of penis size anxiety to breast size anxiety is short-sighted.

I'm certainly aware that erotic fiction is not real life. But do they not represent the desires of the writer or intended audience?

I was not suggesting that men should always abandon the pursuit of their partner's orgasm to save their egos. But, I do think that men who feel eager to please are more likely to be anxious about the size of their organs being insufficient. The attitude I suggest is not one of indifference to the woman's pleasure "right off the bat", but more of a "So you say it was bad because my dick's too small? Fine, I don't care" attitude, just as you might dismiss a person who finds your face ugly.

kathy,

What you said about "woohoo big'un" comments was pretty much what I was saying in my first paragraph. By no means do I suggest all women think they need a big dick, merely that those that like to shout it from the rooftops should perhaps engage in some introspection. I absolutely agree with you with regard to what the media seems to portray as ideal. But, I am observing the sentiments I speak of from women who are not participants in the media. So I think it is a different phenomenon. I am sorry if what I wrote appeared to tar women with a broad brush.

:hug:

Oh, and yes, err...subjects for the upcoming experiments may register here

__________________
I want to know everything
I want to be everywhere
I want to fuck everyone in the world
I want to do something that matters

Now, a subthread....

What exactly does "filled" mean? Does it mean that the entire potential space of the vagina is filled and that any more penis could not possibly fit, or that the space as it currently is has been filled? l thought perhaps the idea would be similar to filling a balloon with air - there's filling, and then there's stretching.

__________________
I want to know everything
I want to be everywhere
I want to fuck everyone in the world
I want to do something that matters

First lemme put my name on that list of lab rats, right behind Osuche......and the second thing i wanta say, I have no other way to put it except in my usual not so delicate manner......

I do not have a tiny hiny....never have...never will.....and just because some one doesn't like my not-so-tiny-hiny....well, big damn deal!!! I lived quite happily without that person yesterday, they sure as hell ain't gonna make much of a dent in my today and i can assure you that come tomorrow, they won't even be a distant memory to me. I just don't understand why you let those thoughts get to you. I'd put all those "woohoo big'un" comments in the same category as high school locker room bragging. And I gotta admit, if i thought about it much, i could get downright offended if i didn't know you better. Not all of us women are so shallow as to think only a big'un could be what pleases us. I would hope that if you love someone, you love all of them....a crooked nose, baldness, a not-tiny-hiny, whatever falls outside of the media's idea of perfection. To me, it's the whole person attraction, not just various pieces and parts.

Plus, sex is like a good vacation....you can plan the route and various stops along the way.....but until you actually get in your car and make the trip, you'll never really understand all the fun from just reading the tourist brochures.